By Ayomipo Lawal
There was something about my conversation with Ojay that stayed with me long after we hung up. Even over the phone, his passion was unmistakable. Not just for entertainment, but for building something bigger than himself; something that would outlive him, create opportunities for others and contribute to an ecosystem where creatives could thrive.
As he spoke about his journey, from talent management to building DefEars into a multifaceted entertainment and creative company, one thing became increasingly clear: Ojay is not particularly interested in standing still. He is constantly looking for new opportunities, new ways to create value and new possibilities for the people and industries around him. Whether it’s discovering talent, embracing technology, investing in original African stories or reimagining the power of community, his approach seems to be guided by one simple philosophy: you evolve or dissolve.
In this conversation, we explore the decisions, failures, ambitions and unconventional thinking that have shaped his journey so far, as well as his vision for the future of African entertainment.
DefEars started as a talent management company, but today it has evolved into something much broader. Take us through that journey.
I’ve been in the music space for a long time, and I’ve morphed into so many things along the way. I used to style music videos with Clarence Peters and worked with Asa Asika too, initially styling videos for newer artists who were trying to work with him. I also used to do print and merchandise. Along the way, I met Blackmagic through Asa. He wanted some things printed, so I made them for him. At the time, I was studying at the University of Ibadan, and I was very social in school, so when we were putting together a show, I reached out to him. We cut a deal; I brought him over and took care of him. He liked how we worked and eventually reached out to ask if I’d manage him. I was already managing JHYBO, who had a song with Cynthia Morgan. So I was already doing music management in one form or another, even before I finished school.
Then, in 2020, I was having a conversation with a friend in Ethiopia about the industry — that “friend” is Dapper that we all know today — and we realised that while we had a lot of solid labels, we didn’t really have solid management companies. We weren’t talking about individual managers; we were talking about an actual management company. That was where the vision for DefEars came from. The reference at the time was Def Jam, and I came up with DefEars. It literally means “definitely hear us” — you’d definitely hear us, but we’re also deaf to mediocrity. We don’t hear that. I started with talent management. I’d already been managing Skiibii for about two years before DefEars, but he became my first official DefEars talent.
Then, through music promotion, I met my partner and COO of the company today, Teni Oyewole, who was previously Head of Sub-Saharan Africa for TikTok. She was very deep in influencer marketing and was mentoring a lot of influencers. I saw an opportunity in what she was doing and told her, “There’s a business here. These people already trust you, so let’s build something around that trust.” That’s how we started influencer management. From there, we moved into content creator management, production, TV production, merchandising and agency services. We’ve done TVCs, including one for Checkers Custard, and today we’re the agency for brands like Kellogg’s, Munchies, BetPawa, Lush Hair, Indomie and Colgate. We handle their social media accounts — especially TikTok — and work across influencer marketing, production, events and TVCs.
And now we’ve moved into the YouTube movie space with DefEars Originals. We released our first official movie, Tough Cut, recently. So, yeah, we’ve expanded quite a bit. It has gone from talent management into a much broader entertainment and creative company.
Looking back over your career, what was the one decision that changed everything for you?
The decision that changed everything for me was deciding to see everything I was doing as a company, rather than just seeing it as me. I’ve always been a hustler. Even in secondary school, everybody knew that about me; I used to sell sweets to my colleagues. In university, I always found a way to make money for myself. But at some point, I wanted to make money for other people too, not just myself. That was the pivotal moment — going from Ojay Lagos, or Ojay Swag, to DefEars Management. Suddenly, it wasn’t about me anymore. I gave all the glory to the company. That shift in mindset changed everything. I wasn’t just building myself anymore; I was building something bigger than myself.
You seem to have a knack for spotting people before they become obvious choices. What do you look for that others might miss?
People look at stats. They look at numbers. They look at trends. To be very, very honest, I’m focused on how much you want it. How bad do you want it? I search for hunger. When there’s a will, there’s a way. I feel like we can add everything else that’s missing along the way. But you can’t add hunger to someone who’s not hungry. So, I genuinely look for people who are super passionate, hungry for what they want and have the will to go after it. Even talent isn’t enough. Your talent can fade if you don’t stay hungry. I’ve been able to spot early on when someone really, really wants it. It’s only hunger that’s worth my time. Your talent isn’t even worth my time if tomorrow you can wake up and decide you don’t feel like doing this anymore. I’ve wasted my time, my efforts and my journey. So that’s what I look for.
What’s been the toughest part of building DefEars that people on the outside probably don’t, see?
People management. Having to manage different people, different walks of life and different temperaments, while also figuring out how to satisfy everybody on the team, has probably been my biggest challenge. You have to know when to blow hot, when to blow cold, when to make strict decisions, when to ignore something and sometimes when to act like you didn’t even know. That skill set of people management has honestly been the most difficult challenge for me. That’s where emotional intelligence really comes into play.
You’ve moved across music, influencer marketing, events, production and now original content. How do you make sure you can operate at that scale without losing quality?
For me, it’s very simple: I hire my weakness. I’m nothing without my team. When I’m going into a new terrain, I look for who’s the best in that area, and we collaborate. I’m very big on collaboration. I bring my own insights from what I’ve done in the past, you bring your experience, and we merge it together and do a madness. That’s been my approach to breaking into new fields quickly. I can learn it myself, but that will take me a long time. I also learn fast on the job, but I’m always a student of the game. When I’m entering a new space, I’m not trying to be the smartest person in the room. I’m trying to find the smartest person in that room and work with them.
The entertainment industry moves quickly. How do you decide what’s actually worth chasing?
I only do what I enjoy. If you notice, everything I’m doing is still around the same thing: entertainment. I only chase things that I enjoy. If you come to me today with an opportunity in treasury bills, as great as I might think the opportunity is, it’s not for me. I make sure I only chase things that, six months from now, I’ll still enjoy doing. I don’t just go for turnover or making money. I go for things I’m super passionate about and things I know I can sustain. If you come to me with a tour that’s going to make me quick money, but I know I’m not going to enjoy it, no matter the amount, I’ll let it go. It’s not mine. It’s probably for someone else.
You’ve spoken about community as the next major frontier in entertainment. Why?
I genuinely believe the future is going to be about communities. Before, it was an individual race. You had individual superstars. Now, I think communities are going to become the superstars. You can’t be a star alone anymore. In the future, it will be less of you and more of us. The earlier we understand that trajectory, the better for us. That’s why you’re seeing all these communities emerge — cafés, book clubs, cycling communities, people coming together to talk about social issues. The idea of community is going to be huge.
I have a friend who has a community where they just listen to albums. They come together, listen to two albums, and everybody gives their commentary.
Now imagine I’m trying to launch a new artist and I’m in partnership with that community. We do a listening session together. Think about the content we can create and the opportunity to tap into an audience that already exists. That’s the future I see. Even when you think about how we used to sit under a tree and have elderly people tell children stories, that was a community. Imagine if someone had recorded those stories. Imagine the footage we’d have today. The culture doesn’t have to disappear just because the setting changes. Maybe we’re not sitting under a tree anymore. Maybe we’re sitting in a café. But the community is still there. Everything needs to be leveraged. Every opportunity, you have to look at it 360 degrees and ask, “Am I leveraging this in its entirety?” That’s how I think the future is going to work.
African entertainment has become one of the continent’s biggest global exports. From where you sit, what do the next five years look like?
It’s going to be worth so much. I joke with my friends that I’m really interested in anything related to content because I know what it’s going to be in the next five years. That’s what I’m going to use to send my kids to university — the dividends of all the content we’re making now. Every time, it gains more value, especially when we’re telling our own unique, original stories. We’re entering an era where we’re seeing stories like Children of Blood and Bone. That’s our story, but it’s being told to us. Imagine if someone had told that story decades ago. Imagine how valuable it would be now. So I’m very interested in telling our stories ourselves. Our music is going to become even more valuable because people will continue sampling it. Look at Fela’s music. His legacy continues to create value because his work is being sampled and reinterpreted.
I also see influencer marketing becoming much bigger. People will eventually get tired of seeing the same American and British influencers and want to bring more Nigerian and African creators into global campaigns. We’ve already seen glimpses of that. We had a talent who partnered with Fortnite to create his own unique dance and avatar. We charged quite a lot for it, and at the time, he couldn’t even believe he could earn that kind of money. But that’s valuable. It spotlighted him, it spotlighted us, and it spotlighted Africa. And it’s not just music. Our food, culture, language, fashion, stories — everything is going to be part of this explosion. You need to be ready. You evolve or dissolve. That’s always been my approach.
As much as we think we’ve covered this region, there’s always another region to cover. We want to be prepared and move fast so that when these opportunities come, we’re not redundant. We’re not the people who were relevant five years ago. We’re still part of the conversation.
If you had unlimited resources tomorrow, what’s the one idea you’d put everything behind?
I actually don’t have a project I’ve never tried to do, but I know the project I’d put everything behind — and I’ve already started it. It’s called Hustle. Hustle is a web app where brands and content creators can connect directly. You don’t need a middleman. If you want to book a content creator, you go on the platform, send a message, negotiate in real time and get the deal done. The creator uploads their content, and it’s watermarked. Once you approve it, the platform releases the money to the creator. It acts as an escrow, takes its percentage, and you get your video without the watermark. Very simple. It’s not even for the Coca-Colas of this world. I’m talking about the everyday SME.
Imagine an SME that has ₦200,000 to spend on promotion and wants to reach people in Kaduna but doesn’t know anybody there. They can go on Hustle, categorise Kaduna influencers, see their reach and find the right person for their niche. The platform will also have AI suggestions — creators recommended based on your niche, audience and budget. That’s the future of what I want to build: taking influencer marketing and putting technology behind it. That’s all I want to do.
